Stuart:
All right. Everybody ready? All right. Solvers Studio. Supposed to do? This is why I'm not an... let's put the problem in the middle of the table and let's all bring our strengths and our backgrounds and our experiences to solve it.
Mary:
What worked, what didn't work? What can I do differently next time?
Christian:
The quality of life that we can improve for everybody. That's where we're getting better.
Stuart:
Welcome to Solvers Studio, and here we go. Well, welcome to the Solvers Studio. Today, we're talking about change management with Lauren DeMarco, our director of Strategic Transformation, and with Christian Siesing, who's our director of OD. Really, when you start to think about any significant evolution within a company, or you think about improving something or capturing an opportunity, change is always the deciding factor between it being successful and it potentially failing. So today, the conversation is really built around what are all those components that get baked into an evolution for a company, for a department, or even down to an office.
We think in this current day, our clients are going through so much. The speed of change in corporate America I don't think has ever been more robust than it is today. So, I'm excited to have you both here to have some conversation, but to get started, to ease into the Q&A a little bit, let's have some fun. So, let me ask you a question. What is a major change in the pop culture world, whether it's entertainment or even sports industry? What's something that that's significant that's happened, that's made an impact on you guys?
Christian:
You want to go first?
Lauren:
Sure. So, I think for me, I would talk about the passing of Anthony Bourdain. So, I loved his books, loved his shows, but he always connects people through food, and that's something I do. Obviously not professionally, maybe someday when I retire, but that the way he connects people through food and then also just makes places around the world that most people will never go. He makes them... that they're not this so far off or unseen. Yeah. Exactly. So...
Stuart:
And probably one of the coolest people on TV. I mean, just somebody that as soon as you see his profile on the screen, you realize something cool's about to happen.
Lauren:
Exactly.
Stuart:
I love it. What about you Christian?
Christian:
Just like this podcast.
Stuart:
Just like this. Yes.
Christian:
Yeah. For me, I think the Ted Lasso. So, I fought watching Ted Lasso. I didn't want another streaming service, but Greg Jones was continued to tell me, go for it, go for it. So, I finally watched it, and it was cool to see a very nice character on TV. The first episode I watched, I was like, "They're going to make fun of him all over. He'll change into, right? He'll evolve." And it was cool to see that he didn't, and that he was embraced for being just a nice guy who was kind and compassionate. And then to see the reaction to just Ted Lassos a show, it was cool. So for me, I think that was a pivotal moment and hope we see more of that.
Stuart:
Yeah. That's on the list for me. My wife and I counted. I think we have 22 shows that have been suggested to us to watch immediately. We'll move that one up to the top. For me, I was thinking about this last night, and there's been so many significant role models or people that have added value to my life that something has changed. And the one that resonates probably most with me is Robin Williams, from a young child. I can remember watching Mork & Mindy and Happy Day days and seeing him, and he always brought so much joy, and then all the movies that he'd ever done had a profound impact in his ability to bring joy, but also that seriousness. I think it was a huge loss when we lost him and how we lost him, I think was the other way that really resonated with me, and especially around mental health. So good. We've eased into it. We've identified what's had a profound impact on us.
Anthony Bourdain, Ted Lasso. I think Ted Lasso has impacted our founder as well. He references them quite a bit. All right. Well, let's jump into change, if you don't mind. Again, both of you have been instrumental in Aston Carter's evolution over the last two years. And so, I'm curious, and how are we going about managing change? So, it drives the results and impacts that we're actually looking for?
Christian:
I think first and foremost, what we're trying to do is be realistic with the change. And we've always had change models. We've always had good philosophies and frameworks with which to do change, but we've gotten a couple of the pieces wrong over the years, and I'm really proud of the investments we've made as a company to go, this is how we explore how we might want to change what the future could look like. Here's how we pilot most effectively without distracting a lot of folks whose jobs are to drive the results to do the work, right? Let's not distract. And then really where I think to move to is the director of strategic transformation. To have senior leadership in the regions. To help us drive the change, who know the style of that region. The way that they communicate. The pace that'll work. Who the people are. I think we're able to reach folks in a much better way. So, to me, we're just getting better at clarifying how change is, and then just the investments in it, I think are going to make leaps and bounds for us.
Stuart:
Yeah. It's funny, I think we've been in this business for a long time, and all three of us have had the luxury of having a long career here within Allegis Group. And I think growing up in the company change at times felt like it was happening to me, not for me, right? And one of the things that Chris, I think you brought to Aston Carter early on was the importance of transparency. And the importance to be able to message to the organization, we're calling our shots, where are we going to go? And I think that's a double-edged sword. I mean, in one breath, the transparency removes some of the emotion of change, but it also adds a lot of voices to the change. Lauren, just for you, I know this isn't necessarily a question we wanted to ask, but I'm just curious, how has transparency from your line of sight, how has that helped or hurt some of the changes that we've been through over the last couple of years?
Lauren:
Yeah. It's a good question. It's done both, right? I mean, to that point, it is a double-edged sword. I think what it has allowed though is to your earlier point, it doesn't feel like it's happening to our people. They're involved. They know what's coming. At times, it causes questions though, right? You or whoever is speaking will talk about a change that's coming, but we only know part of what that change is going to be because we don't have it all figured out. We don't pretend to, but then people make up stories in their head, "Oh well, this is happening. Oh, is this going to happen because Lauren said this on a conference call? Or is that going to happen?" And that's where I think it gets a little bit tricky is we want people to know what's happening. We want to be transparent, but we don't want them creating stories.
Christian:
It can't be transparency in an isolated moment. You can't just share something. We might move to this new structure and then leave it. You have to create the opportunity for dialogue. And the second part that we're trying to do some work on is just pace play. I think that's the biggest thing. I think for people to know that this is where we're going. There's a massive difference between in two months or in two years. And to be able to paint that picture more effectively I think will ease a lot of minds and then bring those voices into the room to help us. How do we get their backs?
Stuart:
I think it's great. Regardless of what role I was in this organization or really any company in corporate America, employees want to have a voice. They want to be able to put their DNA on the evolutions of the company and to really... and I think you all... I'm sure we'll get into it throughout this conversation, but that emotional commitment is the difference between good and great, right? I think there's a lot of people that are probably watching this or listening to it say, everything was fine, but what challenges specifically do you feel like we're facing Lauren, today?
Lauren:
I mean, some of the more obvious ones, we are in a really tight labor market, and how do we become more effective on how we go to market and our strategy there. And how do we make our field team more productive so that they're able to do their job in a shorter period of time than what it has at times historically taken. So, because the market's so tight, we have to be connecting with more and more people in order to do it. So how can we do that more effectively? Because that's a critical piece. For me is how does the quality of life of our employees improve with the changes that we're looking to bring about.
Stuart:
Christian, your line of sight that this is... what do we need to change?
Christian:
I think where it starts is when we talk about our people, when we talk about the voices in the room. We're doing a better job listening to the full breadth of our people, which is our folks internally, the producers in the field, but we're also listening to our clients and our talent. And I think that's where we're starting to make some of those moves. The quality of life that we can improve for everybody. And no matter if you're a client of talent or if you're a part of the Aston Carter family internally, I think that's where we're getting better. So, to that point, I think some of the things that we need to do is just as we look at how we're structured, where are their bottlenecks? Where are there things that are preventing us because of structural or process that aren't allowing us to be who we want to be and who our clients and talent want us to be?
So, if we can find those places... and that's where the field voices are so critical. They know the person selling right now, calling on clients knows where the bottlenecks and where the broken pieces are within our process or our structure, and we just want to fix those. And I think that's to the evolutionary. Some of those are small. It doesn't need to be massive change, but what we learn in one market, how do we then get it into the other markets? But I think the big piece is just our clients and our talent are telling us how we can improve. And that's where we got to get it from our folks. They know the answers. We just need to figure out the best way to get it to everybody.
Stuart:
I love it. We spend a lot of time internally talking about internal challenges, right? And I just keep coming back to... I've got a bunch of friends that don't work for the organization in the marketplace right now, and the amount of change that's happening for companies. We've seen our clients and some of our partner clients' customers approach this very differently. When you think of the audience that we have of our clients that are out there, some of our vendors and our partners. What's some advice that we can give them if they're feeling very overwhelmed by the amount of topics? The amount of change?
Christian:
I would encourage everybody to think about things in terms of structure, process, technology, and our people. Once you start to think about it in those categories, you can start to get the root causes of some of the problems and maybe how to get to those opportunities. I think when we blend those, it's one thing for us to have our people at the center of everything. Create opportunity, take care of our people. It's another thing to start with them and design things around a person. So, what happens is there's a lot of emotion that gets baked into that conversation. When you really look at what's the problem, it typically is a structural problem, a process problem or a technology that we need to get better at, introduce or honestly get out of the system.
Once you figure that out, then you can figure out how to upskill and how to reskill and how to move our folks so that they can see that success, that quality of life. I think when we blend those four categories, we get ourselves into trouble and the conversation becomes one that isn't as fact-based like it to be. So, I would encourage any client who's dealing with any level of problem in their organization, break it out into those four, and then start asking questions, get curious around all, and then it, you'll get to a root cause and then you'll see all the interdependencies. Inevitably, you're taking care of your people, but you start with structure, technology and process to get there.
Stuart:
I think, yeah, you said something there that resonates, and I think what I see a lot of companies do, they address the symptoms and not the root cause. And so, that's where I think companies and leaders lose a lot of credibility because you don't really address the main issue. And I think people, that's where change exhaustion sets in, right? Is when you misdiagnose the problem and change that, but yet the problem still exists. How does a company... looking at how does someone get to that root cause? The infrastructure model I think is a key component, but is there anything else that a business leader that's out in the marketplace could apply to really get down to that root cause?
Lauren:
I think one of the things that at times when I was leading a team, you find yourself going and letting the emotion get into it and really taking a step back and to your point, taking the individual people out of it, but going with the facts. What are the facts that are going on in the situation. And how do you back that up with whether it's the numbers or the results, and then work down from there. I think the other piece, and it's when we're working through change and advice for our customers, is make sure that once you've identified what that root cause is, you're taking a step back. And what I do appreciate about our model is that we take a step back and we're creating a vision for what we want to accomplish, and then we're doing a lot of communicating and educating before we even get to a point of making a change because that's going to allow us to get the buy-in. So, if I'm looking at a customer, get that buy-in before you start actually adopting the change.
Stuart:
Such a great point because I think a lot of our secret to our sauce here at Allegis Group, right? And specifically, Aston Carter is our culture. We rely heavily on those relationships. We're a relationship-based company. And so, when it works, you can move the Titanic very quickly, and that's a competitive advantage in the marketplace when an organization has a changed mindset and understands the behavioral component of it and the insecurities that come with it, and if those relationships help manage the message, and more importantly, the tactics that need to be executed. Odds are you're going to have a healthy launch or a healthy evolution, but it does come back to those relationships and making sure that people understand. Hence, the reason why we do these, right? And why we're doing these video casts is to really give all 1,500 employees of ours just a peek behind the curtain on what it's like to be in OD or to be in technology or to be somebody that's driving DE&I for organization.
Our hope is through that we establish a good amount of trust, and that trust will go a long way in asking for blind faith to go to your future state, right? That's great. All right. Let's keep going. We've done a lot over the last two years. And I think people could constantly look at the next evolution, the next bit of change. What are some of the things that we're proud of that we've won, the wins that we've had over the last couple of years to really validate our change methodology one works. And number two, I want to point to some things, so those 1,500 employees realize that they're living the change right now. What are some of those things you're proud of?
Christian:
Yeah. I mean, you talk about digging from or drinking from wells we did not dig. So, some of it was the great work that divisional ops did leading into the change. I go back to two and a half, three years ago when we started this journey, what we got was an Aston Carter team that didn't have definition. We didn't know, I was looking back over some of where we were and it was APS, Aerotek Professional Services. And that was an amalgamation of a lot of different things and a lot of generalists. And we had Aston Carter that had account in finance and a very strong brand and identity, and we had to bring those teams together into a cohesive company, into a community, and we had to define what Aerotek Professional Services was it was now ours. So, I'm really proud of the work that everyone did that divisional ops did to set us up for what those could be.
And then for us as a company to go, okay, how do we want to approach the market? And then to do it from a place of how do our clients, what does our talent want? They want us to be specialists in the skillsets and they want us to have deep expertise both in the skill sets as well as the industries. And we started with the skillsets, and I think the specialization moves we've made as a company, I could not be more proud of nor more impressed with how the field went through that change at the speed that they did. I just incredibly proud. I think it'll pay dividends over time, but that's one of the first places I would go to from a pride standpoint. Absolutely.
Stuart:
That's great. How about you, Lauren? Anything that comes to mind that...
Lauren:
Certainly, the specialization, it's something I've been very deeply involved in specifically this year as we've continued to evolve, and I'll speak to operations and administrative and where we've gone with HR and talent acquisition and procurement and supply chain, and the excitement that our sellers and our recruiters are feeling around their newest specializations and they're starting to see wins. This is going to be something that to your earlier point, it will be 2023 and on, but we're seeing it already. Wow. I mean, we're seeing people that are now, they're at contest level in their new specialization 10 months in which is incredible, but it's just because they were able to dive in. I'm also proud of where we've started to go with technology. We're not there yet, but we're starting to see little wins and we're able to do little experiments in the field and see wins coming out of it and starts going in the door in some of these projects that we're working on. So that's really exciting as well. But I think we're just scratching surface. Yeah. So...
Stuart:
Yeah. It's funny, our wins are in many ways just the structure in the clarity for the masses, the execution of it yet we're still working on, right? For me, one of the things that I'm just so proud of, and probably more shocked similar to both of you, but what we did with GRC I think is something that we all, I think maybe take for granted a little bit, but to understand and take us back a little bit, that business wasn't ours when we first started as an organization. It was actually TEKsystems, and it's a great example of working with our sister companies on the campus on creating alignment and partnership.
And what was great was TEK was very open to allowing us to take over that vertical and that opportunity. And I think when we took it over it wasn't all that significant in spread, but to see where it is today and to see it being run very differently than how we've run things. Now, there's a lot that we've got to learn through that structure and process, but to see what industry dedication is with dedicated leaders that understand the business, how quickly we can execute and stand something up, I think it's been a great bellwether of our future and certainly how we can stand up new product lines. It was great.
Christian:
Steve, before we go to another one, but just one other one that jumps out that I think we'll look back on and be really proud of it in the moment from a change standpoint is just international. I think the work that our Canadian partners are doing and that our EMEA partners are doing right now to integrate in, but there's learning back and forth. So, to become a global company, to have the work that they're doing in services with EMEA in London is just fantastic. We're learning a ton about what we can do. So, I think we become a global company, a powerhouse, but to watch them navigate the different opcos, the Allegis to integrate in to become part of our community without losing their identity has been a really impressive.
So just really cool to see. And I think those three major regions, the US, EMEA and Canada, it's cool to see a global company for me. So that to me is resonating today.
Stuart:
I'm glad you brought that up because it was one of the notes I took while you were talking, Lauren. I think you talk about cohesion, right? Christian and the connectivity between the field and certainly our strategy. But now we are becoming a global company and we just recently were over in London somewhat onboarding them into the Aston Carter community. But what are some of the challenges of trying to evolve a global company and to create identity around change? The intimacy that we create here in North America or in the US is very natural, but onboarding these other cultures and these other identities into that strategy isn't simple. What are some of the things that you all are experiencing, or more importantly, what are some things that were shockingly positive about the change alignment for these three regions, as you said?
Christian:
Yeah. For me, I think it comes from our DE&I, diversity, equity, and inclusion team. I think the work that Donnell Campbell's done to help me to understand how communities are built and that my vantage point or my lens isn't necessarily the best place to start, or I just have to be. So, when you go over to London, there was just an immediate acceptance and an interest from my standpoint around just being curious around what community means to them, what they want from us, what we want from them, how do we build that together.
So, for me, and the same thing for Canada, I think we've taken a very specific approach around who are you? What do you do? Great. Here's who we are today and here's what we think we do great. Now let's learn and blend versus I think the opposite approach, which could have taken, we chose not to, and it's been great. I mean, each region's doing something slightly different, and the cultures are different enough fundamentally though, great people with big hearts who want to win and help each other, so can't go anywhere on Aston Carter and not see that. So, just that foundations there. And then honestly, it's fun to learn new cultures and how things show up. I had a blast over London with our partners there.
Stuart:
Yes, he did. Just everyone's clear. He did a great time.
Christian:
So, yeah, that to me was I think how they define community, how they show up and just foundationally great people with big hearts everywhere.
Stuart:
One of the things that I learned early on with engaging with EMEA specifically was the potential fear of taking a US identity business strategy and culture and just laying it on top of another culture and forcing that to evolve to what we want out of here. What I hear you say, and what I know to be true is that isn't our strategy. Our strategy very much is to meet them where they are and to take all the good that's coming out of these cultures and out of these regions, and how do we indoctrinate them into our global strategy. There's some things that we do here in North America that for a lot of reasons aren't able to be duplicated in another country. And so, I think the humility that I've been proud of is the humility of all leaders, both in Europe, in Canada, and in the US, to be open-minded to saying, okay, if the style in which we execute something is far less important than the content itself, the outcome that we want.
So, whether it's solutions or whether it's more staffing focus, those things I think from a content perspective we can align to, but how you stand it up, that's that personal and that community identity that we need to continue to empower. So, I love it. I love it. All right. What do we need from our people to ensure we change and evolve? I think, again, I take myself back to being a recruiter in the company and I would hear these proclamations from the company or from the president or from my leadership, and I don't think I was that different than most people that join our company. I always wanted to know how do I contribute to the change? How do ensure that it happens because all of our leaders talk passionately about where we're going, and you want to be passionately aligned to make that come to fruition.
So just curious, what do we need from them to really make sure that all the work that we're putting in to being transparent, we talked about that we're bringing in an inclusive environment to get feedback. At the end of the day when you're back in your office sitting at your cubicle or on the road or working from home, what do we need them to be thinking and doing?
Lauren:
I think it's critical to be open-minded. We need to give them the information so that they can trust us. So, we'll ask for the trust, but the open-mindedness, the willingness to try something new because we are going to do things different than maybe we historically had. But knowing that the intent is always to evolve and create opportunity and become a bigger and better and more sustainable company for the future so that they can have the careers that the three of us absolutely have had and will continue to have. And I think vulnerability, so if there's fear or if there's questions, sharing that with their leaders and with us so that we can help address it, they're not going to get it perfect, right? There will be things that we will make mistakes, but if we know what people are concerned about and they're vulnerable with us, then we can help address it because that maybe it is something we're missing or maybe it's just something that we didn't communicate effectively. So...
Stuart:
Couldn't agree more. And I think going back to that point, it's that ability to have that imposter when you know that space where you're not confidently executing, right? To understand that, yes, I think a lot of people's individual mentality is, I'll just work through this, it'll figure it out, right? And a lot of times there's just such wasted one, there's emotional capital that gets wasted there, and then you also waste a tremendous amount of time. I think one of the things about our culture that I hope people hear not just in this video cast and all of them, is the safety and not being perfect and the ability to raise your hand and say, "I'm struggling with this evolution or this change or this responsibility." What I know about this company is we're really good at helping when people are in need.
And so, I think we need to test our culture as frequently as possible of raising our hand and saying, "I struggle with this system or this strategy or this position." Not for anything other than I'm confident in our leader's ability to solution that with you. So, really well said. How about you, Christian anything that comes to mind?
Christian:
Yeah. I think just going off that a bit of a paradox, when you asked about change, what could they do? What they could do wonderfully is the job that they're tasked with at the time and not overthink the change. And maybe for Lauren to expand from the east, they're driving operations right now in ops. And sometimes what we need as a company when we're creating the change that's going to come is to ensure that the foundation's strong. So sometimes, and I hope it's comforting, the best thing you can do is be a part of our community, share your voice and do your job as well as you can and not try to anticipate the change. I think that's where we're trying to get that narrative a little different where it's not always looking over your shoulder for the next change but buckle down and be able to do your job. And hopefully, that creates comfort. But a lot of things we're developing are to go on top of the solid foundation and build the stories up. If the foundation is shaky, then-
Stuart:
We're in trouble.
Christian:
That's in trouble so 90% of the time it's hopefully just do your job as well as you can and raise your hand when you can. And the east has done a really good job driving operations and that let's execute wonderfully right now. So, is that your thoughts or?
Lauren:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, it's been around and it's part of my job in my new role is to make sure that we can continue to produce and be successful as we're going through the evolution. So that's a lot of when I'm talking to a team in an office or on our messaging with our regional calls or with our executive advisory board, hey, to your point, do your job. We've got to continue to, and we're going to help try to lay things in incremental change so that we can evolve, but not something that is so drastic that we can't still have success this year and next year and the year after. We just want to be able to accelerate that success with these changes.
Stuart:
Totally agree. Yeah, one of the founding principles I think that Christian, I know you and I talked a lot about early on when we were standing up Aston Carter was we can be convicted about our strategy, but we have to build in an offer amp on everything that we do because you'll uncover things along the way and instead of disrupting people's careers and certainly their success, we have to have, it's a responsibility of the organization to ensure that we always have multiple options. I think when you get two pigeonholed into one strategy, that's where I think a lot of the stress and complexity gets built in. What I love is the fact that we do build that off-ramp, as simple as some of the technology things. What I loved is we had a partner that we were working with, but we had multiple backup partners that were waiting so that if that fell through, we had other options there.
We were committed to having a technology solution. We didn't say we were committed to the vendor. And I think that that mindset of being able to be flexible is critical. The other thing that comes to mind when I think of that question, I had an opportunity yesterday to talk to our business development, our new sellers, and it was a great virtual call. And one of the things that I really stressed on that call because they asked me what were some of the secrets to my success early on and one of the things that I hadn't really thought about or talked about, I was maniacally disciplined. If I really go back, and it wasn't the cool thing to do on many of those years, I think I got ridiculed for being very... yeah, discipline wasn't a... as my kids would call me a try hard, right?
I was trying a little hard to be the perfect employee, but the reality is that discipline developed skills, those skills developed confidence and that confidence put me in positions to be courageous with my clients and with my people. And so, I think a lot of times we get overly calculated on what it takes to support a company's change. And I think what it comes down to is the ability and the courage to be disciplined. To your point, to follow the fundamentals of your current role because those formidable fundamentals... to your point, we're building on top of. So, if there's gaps down here that we're not aware of or that you don't have, odds are that change of that evolution's going to feel different for you than it was intended to.
And so, I think if you're listening and you're thinking about, "Okay. How do I support the organization?" I think you've got to look back to your point, Christian, at your responsibilities. What is your purpose here? Why do we need you in that job? What's the contribution to our culture and to our performance and be really maniacal about those behaviors? Anything you want to add to that or any, how does that resonate with you?
Christian:
I think it's perfect. And the off-ramps, that introduction has saved us from countless things. I think there's this common theme that will come, hell or high water will do this. No, there's been multiple times. I'm very proud that we've had somebody raise their hand and say, "This isn't working." Lauren and Chris Anthony right now are working on some pilots and there's things that need to be modified. So, if everybody's sticking to those fundamentals and we're building on top of that, we're all from the same sheet of music now we're able to talk, and this doesn't work and it's not... the trust is there because we know you're holding your end of the bargain. We're trying to hold on our end and when something's broken, we can rear cause go back to how to fix it. So, I think it's critical and to me, very comforting to go, okay, what's my purpose here? Yeah. Am I upholding that? And then stacking on top of that. So...
Stuart:
Yeah. Again, I just keep putting myself in one of the 1,500 employees' shoes for a minute at the earliest stages of the career all the way up to the most senior. And it's like you just come back to the comfort of knowing that we can be emotionally committed to a path and trust the fact that the leaders are looking at safety nets to ensure that we don't disrupt our culture or our company or impact the success of our people significantly. We want to make sure that we're doing this the right way. And I think that goes down the path to my last question here that I think we hit earlier just about talking about our clients and really talking about the marketplace and really thinking about that infrastructure. You brought it up Christian a couple different times and I think it's one of the most significant contributions to Aston Carter from OD has been the introduction of a change methodology, right?
So, if you think about how we can leverage our change that infrastructure model for our clients, how do we take that to either help our opportunities or help our clients evolve in the proper direction? How do you use that? If I'm a seller, if I'm an arm or I'm in strategic sales and solutions. How can I use that to maybe further my relationship and opportunity?
Christian:
Yeah. I think if we go in as problem solvers and start with the client, it's a model that's easily used. A couple tactics I would use if I'm a seller right now, I would go in thinking process structure and technology and I would ask a lot of questions around that very tactical approach. Simple as it is, I would ask five whys. I would start with why helps you get to the root cause. You're going to start to become consultative in your approach. And now we're going to open up the multiple offerings that we have as a company to really help that client. You're going to become known as a partner in that and you are helping them to solution. So, instead of only staffing as a potential, you're opened up a lot.
The other thing too is teaching people how to look at their business. They're going to gravitate towards you as a partner. So, if I'm a seller, I'm asking about structure, process and technology. What projects or initiatives do you have? How's it going? And when you get on that one, you know as a seller, when you get that one pain point, ask five whys. Once you get to that root cause there's a ton of solutions that we can do. So, just from a very tactical approach, that's how I would do it. And I think it'll add a lot of credibility and that's the expertise they're looking for, and then we can open up the solution.
Stuart:
Yeah. It's interesting when you read, we've read plenty of sales books over the years, right? And the key word there is sales. And what I always say in most speeches I give or if I talk to the sales class is whether you're reading accidental sales per person, you're reading, spin selling at the core of it was always built around relationships, right? And I think what's starting to happen is that's a seller's approach where it's not so much about your company or your offerings, it's more about you as an individual. And I think, I don't know if I could validate this, but I think a lot has transpired in the art of sales. I think there's a customers want more than that trusted partner, that relationship. They want us to maybe be more solutions drivers than sellers. And I think what's interesting is I'm doing some construction on my home and I'm not a very good design person. I'm not a detail person. If anybody that works for me understands that I'm a thought person, I have a vision, but when it comes down to the details, it's not my strength.
And so, I had the builder come to me and he was like, "Would you want to put this molding?" And it's like, "I just want molding. I don't really care." And he said, "Okay. Well, let me walk you down this conversation." And he said, and he started to show me samples and my options. He started to take me down. He wasn't just selling me whatever the cheapest was. He wanted to truly give me a product that I was proud of, but he gave me tons of options to solve my issue. I think our sellers a lot of times forget the power of just being present in the conversation and listening. I think more often than not, opportunities are presented constantly, and we're so focused on maybe being a staffing company or a managed solutions' company that we miss what the client ultimately needs, and it's powerful. How about for you, Lauren? What do you think from a client perspective?
Lauren:
Yeah. I think from a client perspective in the long term, as we continue to get better at change, maybe that becomes an offering for us. But in the immediate term, the work we've done around specialization is something that I think is going to be critical as we continue to expand because now, we're becoming experts in a specialization so that we can be more consultative. So that we can talk to them about their actual pains in the business within their procurement or within their operational accounting. And so, we can understand and then help solution versus going out in the old get a rack, fill the rack that we've been doing for a long time, which made us very successful, but how much bigger can it be? How much more can we support them and partner with them if we actually to your point listen but bring that specialized expertise to the table.
Stuart:
In the infrastructure model. It just gives you a great structure to be curious, right? I think that's the power of it is when you ask about what are the technology investments that an organization that is going to expose tons of opportunity for us? And certainly, when you talk about processes, what process are you trying to evolve? I think one of our largest opportunities that we've had in man's solutions was actually over in EMEA and it was with a customer that was going through major change and that opportunity for us to be on the front end of that and to be able to solution that, it was a phenomenally successful program.
Christian:
To that point. It's funny, I hear it both ways because the buyers have become more savvy. And sellers who come in wanting to get their way, it becomes adversarial and confrontational. Buyers are more savvy. That's not a bad thing. That actually opens up a lot of different avenues for us if we can show who we really are, and by partnering being consultative, you're opening up a lot of doors. It's not a confrontational, it's great that buyers are more savvy. They know the value. We have the value to give. We just want to make sure that everybody knows how to sell that effectively and be a partner, but that buyers are more savvy is great. That's actually going to open up more doors than closed unless we do it in a confrontational manner so that we're going towards solutions and problem solving in these meetings, that's the way to go. And we're seeing it across the board.
Stuart:
That's great. Well, this has been an unbelievable conversation, something that I was excited to sit down with both of you. It's fun to interact and have dialogue with people that are on the front lines of the future of our company. From multiple levels, you all, your departments and your teams and your partners that aren't here with us today have had significant impacts on our company and certainly our future. For me, I love having these conversations and I'm a big believer in balance. And so, I think we've spent a good amount of time talking about the tactical power of change. I wanted to take a minute to just acknowledge the amount of courage that I get to see every day with people like yourselves. The ability to challenge paradigms, the ability to step on to really thin ice and challenge the status quo is one of the greatest contributions that this team has made.
You all have been very respectful of the past and to protect the things that we need to pull through to the future. But you've been very, very specific about the areas that we probably need to look in the mirror and be a little more challenging of one another. I think it's important for all of us to understand as we go through iterations is that the one thing, and it's a trivial statement, but the one thing that's constant is change. It's about how you manage that change that I think, I hope that people listening here understand that we are putting a tremendous amount of care into our people and to our clients and into the consultants that we represent to ensure that our changes bring value to all three of those audiences.
And so, talking and traveling the last few weeks, I've had the opportunity to interact with a lot of different levels in our company. And the one feedback that I consistently get is just how committed and how passionate they are about the Aston Carter name, and more importantly, how important it is that we maintain that identity of being special. And the idea that word special comes from a place of really investing in that community, being respectful of people's emotional identities and how they tie into the evolution of this company. Universally, I have not met one person that has said that they aren't on board with us making this a better company. But what comes with that is also the obligation to go through the work. Unbelievable conversation. I think we hit multiple depths of really the complexity and certainly the dynamics of change in the methodology. It was really good. But if I'm at back in the office or if I'm watching online, that's a lot of information.
So help me, if you were to have two or three main things to summarize really what are we asking and more importantly, what is change for our organization? Help me summarize it. What are a couple of things that you really want people to remember coming off of this conversation?
Christian:
Yeah. I think number one, that we have a consistent methodology. It's called experience change, and we've got the infrastructure model that we're doing from root cause. So, trust that we have a process and if it feels off or you feel like you need information, raise your hand. That's what you deserve. So, if you feel an absence of information, raise your hand and we can get that to you in the best way possible, so consistent methodology.
Stuart:
Love it. How about you, Lauren?
Lauren:
I'd say to the point earlier, do your current job be really sound in the fundamentals. That is the foundation of what we are going to continue to put on and layer on top of to help us evolve as a company. So, staying consistent there and then just making sure you have a voice. Yes, ask for help to your point, but also if you have an opinion and something doesn't feel right, speak up and let us know that so that we can address it and figure out because if you're feeling it, there's someone else in the room or a different office that's feeling the same thing.
Christian:
So well said.
Stuart:
Wonderful. Really well said. Again, thank you all for your time. Thank you for all that you do for this organization and all you are focused on doing in the future. It's an unbelievable partnership and definitely a bright spot in Aston Carter. So, thank you for your time. Yeah, appreciate it.
Lauren:
Thanks.
Christian:
Thank you.
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